Ed "I'm Talking and I Can't Shut Up" Babinski posted this on the Ticker, which will be deleted from there; he still hasn't figured out, after being told three times, that he's not welcome there. Just as well though -- it makes for great fodder here and on TWeb.
I have asked J.P. for years about his personal journey (let's not call it a "testimony" but simply personal development over time). How old was he when Christianity became his belief system? Can he list all that he read prior to converting?
No, Edski. I can't define an age because there is NO point of conversion I can identify. There is also therefore no list I can offer beyond vague memories. Not that it matters, since that would have zero bearing on the truth of the matter.
Personally reviewing one's own life, what one has read and experienced at different stages, is an essential part of a feedback loop that teaches us who we are and what we truly DO believe.
Maybe for a weak mind like you, Edski, but for those of us who consider objective truth the main thing, that's just a waste of time.
And we all change, sometimes in big ways, sometimes in small ones. Life is change. Even those who remain Christians have experiences and read books that alter their views of what Christianity is or is not.No, Edski. Not for an INTJ. We change very little over time. We do change our mind based on evidence though -- not just any old book we find in the gutter, the way you do it.
And our minds from adolescence to adulthood change as well. It's good to review one's own life journey, even in the face of questions from others. Richard Carrier's journey is online. Loftus' is in print. My own journey is online and in print. So is Robert Price's. I'm not saying there are not also stories of journey's toward conservative Christianity. I'm just saying there are people with stories and there are people who are less than willing to share theirs.
Yes, we know. You find those books in the "Horror" section at B and N. I don't give a crap for your "journeys," Edski. People like you who cling to the past and can't let go of it are part of the reason humanity in the West is stuck in regressive childhood functions.
But I am convinced that challenging one's self to write down an account as best as one can recall it, of what one's journey has been like, what it involved, what one read, what pertinent events and meetings and questions and quotations from others along the journey that led to you becoming "you" -- is an essential part of being human.
Yeah sure thing, Dr. Anthropologist.Then I'll spare myself the indignity of being "human" and join some other group, like the Vulcans.
Each person's life is not simply a rehearsal of religious dogmas, nor atheist dogmas. It's an historical process of intellectual growth, asking questions, ingesting data of all sorts. Writing down such a story clarifies things in one's own mind, and also outlines what's most fuzzy and where further clarification is needed. It helps us explain even to ourselves who we are.
That's something weak-minded people like you need, Edski, but not me. I don't need to write things down to be reflective. What you write down, I do internally.
I would like J.P. to consider leaving aside the mouthing of dogmas for a second,
I never "mouth dogmas", fundy boy. I state facts arrived at by careful consideration of evidence. Just because you never advanced past that sort of babyish thinking, don't assume no one else did. If all I did was mouth dogmas, I wouldn't be a preterist, or someone who believes hell is not literal flames, or hold a dozen other views I have that set the average pastor's head aswirl.
and the mouthing of insults and write the J.P. story. Even if he doesn't share it with anyone but close friends the first step is writing it down. No one is attacking him for having a story. So he should feel free to examine questions and different matters arguing only with himself throughout. The greatest challenge is always converting one's self, not converting others.
Thanks for the advice, Ann Landers. Stuff it up your nose with the end of a fire hose. The only reason you think this is necessary is because you arrogantly assume that I need it, since I have not become a heathen wretch the way you are. IOW I must not have done it right, or I'd be like you.
If he does eventually decide to share it like Carrier, Price, Loftus and myself have done, questions will be asked. And perhaps that's what he's concerned about concerning his story, i.e., that he wasn't in grad school nor well read prior to converting to Christianity.
Welcome to Fantasy Island. It's the same old story: Edski can't win arguments, so he resorts to the genetic fallacy.
That his testimony resembles that of many other youthful converts. That once converted he wanted to be the best Christian he could be and convert the rest of the world, and how early attempts to convert others ("turn or burn") may have resulted in some harsh responses from others, and how he eventually became J.P. Holding.
I didn't ever try to convert anyone, Edski, least of all with "turn or burn" techniques, with which I always harshly disagreed. I had maybe 5-10 non-Christians come to me with questions (plus many more Christians), but I never pressed them to make a decision and they were always open and friendly. I always had a sense -- since confirmed by research -- that modern evangelistic techniques were faulty and centered in false premises of the Gospel as a self-help mechanism. So I never "witnessed" to anyone and still don't.
So much for your fantasies. Time to wake up and slap yourself.
I'd pay money to read his story, laid out in detail.
OK. Send me a check in advance. $1000 for the actual printing by Xulon, plus another $2000 for my time. Make it out to Tekton, please. I'll wait for it.
Just the part about being a prison librarian might prove interesting. In fact I just saw an autobiography of a prison librarian at Barnes and Noble: Running the Books: The Adventures of an Accidental Prison Librarian by Avi Steinberg (Oct 19, 2010) 27 customer reviews and four stars at amazon.com.
How nice. I won't spoil the surprise then. Just send me the cash and we'll let you see for yourself.